While most Blogs are nothing but a vent for the frustration of right thinking Amiricans, this is not my cause. I am building a link to help gather resources and take a proactive stance against the tide of socialism. My posts are meant to inform you and, when possible, help you better explain and defend our principles. We are all leaders, we are all FREEDOM FIGHTERS!

Our goal is to help coordinate as many local political groups as possible in order to create a strong and organized local movement. We would suggest that you either start a meetup group or join one that's already in place. For help go to http://www.meetup.com/ or 912 Project USA.com / For The Sake of Liberty! . With your effort and support we can become a strong force against the socialization of our great nation. If you have a suggestion or want information, please e-mail me at flounders70@aol.com .

Saturday, October 10, 2009

Good Debate, Good Beer, Good Times

First I'd like to thank my new friends from Bradenton for a great night of debate (among other things). It was a shining example of how this nation is going to progress, free and open debate in a public tavern.

Between the sips of good beer and the distraction of the countless sporting events being displayed on the array of flat screen TVs there was an inspirational conversation taking place. A friendly debate between total strangers who both wanted only one thing... A better future for their children.

The means could not have been more distantly divided but the goal was the same. The informaton was fair and honest and the passion was deep and consuming. With all of this, there was no anger, hate or even disrespect between the small group of patriots who entered the arena of ideas with the strength of their own convictions.

I was so proud, I've always been taught to avoid politics and religion in public forums but on this night we had broken through the taboo and made it work. We debated both. A hand full of guys with as many differing opinions were able to sit and discuss while remaining friendly because we all adhered to the facts and never got personal.

I bet you want to know who won the debate... The answer is.... You! That's right, we each put in our two cents and we each left with something that we hadn't come with. Now we can share our honed philosophy with the next group at the next tavern. The long term result of this pattern is a stronger citizenship full of people who have been forced, through piblic debate, to question their own facts and find better understanding of their own values in order to help others understand them.

The key to the success of this debate was the fact that none of us were bound to any party affiliation. We simply had a set of principles and ideas that lead us to our idiologies.

Now it is your turn. Go out and talk to everyone about the right answers. Don't attack what others are doing and don't defend anothers attack. Just share your own Ideas and consider the ideas of others. Be friendly and keep it impersonal. It can work but you have to keep it safe.

On that note, I am still waiting for one of you (on the left) to come and explain exactly what it is that you stand for. I do not want to pick a fight but I want a reasonable debate. I have explained most of My beliefs in "the jimmy Strawn plan" which is linked on the right side of the blog.


Silence DoGood said...

Well, I do not represent The Left. I don't think anyone does really. some are trying to like Obama and Pelosi but they are power figures in the DNC.

I consider myself liberal but also Libertarian. Important beleifs for me include:

- freedom of thought and religion like the founders of our country - this includes all types of thoughts, many conservatives today are free-to-be-christian and many liberals are free-to-be-atheist, both of which is intolerance.

- reasonable goverment aid protection for those less fortunate or discriminated against - yes I will pay taxes cheerfully, BUT I am dismayed at the big government waste of my money

- promoting peace in the world - I think that most politicians on both sides of the aisle have contributed to spreading weapons and fear without fixing the fallout, going way beyond the national defense

Just a few to answer the question.

disclaimer: I represent myself only.

flounder said...

"many conservatives today are free-to-be-christian"... While technically you are right, I would have to say that many does not mean that it is the majority. It's probably evenly split.

I find myself in lots-o-debates with "conservatives" who are misled into thinking that it means something that it does not.

The true conservative position is that we are free to believe anything and say anything (unless it involves children)and others are free to shop somewhere else if they don't like it.

I don't care what consenting adults do behind closed doors or what gender they are. You can kill yourself with drugs, just don't take anyone else with you. You can kill someone because they are black, mexican, ugly or because they stepped on your shoe... it's still murder and the punishment should be the same.

The biggest disconnect between your definition and mine (that I can see) is that our federal government is absolutly NOT responsible for helping anybody. That is the job for churches, civic unions and small local government (providing the populous supports it).

The Constitution is VERY CLEAR on that fact, as were those who wrote it. It requires that, on a federal level, all acts of "common welfare" must provide equally for all Americans. This means that the rich should be taxed at the same percentage as the poor and that nobody gets a handout.

Both parties have whored out the Constitution and it is for us to clean up this mess!

Silence DoGood said...

" all acts of "common welfare" must provide equally for all Americans. This means that the rich should be taxed at the same percentage as the poor and that nobody gets a handout. "

Whoa there cowboy, there is not specification on HOW exactly the federal government can tax. As I referred to elsewhere, consider the 179? Whiskey Rebellion. What started that is unfair unequal taxation. They can do that if they want - they can tax every 3rd person wering a white shirt. Hopefully we could vote out the fools that enact such a thing.

I think that liberal legislation has gone too far in handing out money NOT in the general welfare interest. But a universal health care bill would effect all citizens in a way I endorse so I say "go for it".

On the other hand the stimulus package targetted money to specific areas and groups so I think it might be unconstitutional speaking as a total non-lawyer.

flounder said...

If you read the "notes of debate" from the Constitutional convention it was pretty clear that the phrase "..But all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States" was inserted in Art 1, Sect 8 to prevent the federal government from using taxation to gain favor or to choose which people to "punish". The consensus was that any tax that could be used in such manor would "destroy the country".

The whiskey rebellion was a good example of the noted potential for this type of problem. The Tax on Whiskey was brought by Alexander Hamilton before the completion of the Constitution in 1791 as an attempt to control behavior (prevent drinking) of Americans.

The resulting military action was the defining moment which gave credibility to the constitution.

Today we have seen a progressive movement towards controlling behavior through taxation. It started with the socialists of he early 20th century (both Rosevelts among others) and has developed into a giant monster. We are rewarded for marriage (assuming you are marrying an approved mate), charity (as long as the government knows about it) and failure (in the form of social security and welfare.

At the same time we are punished for smoking, drinking, buying a big car and becoming financially successful.

All of this is wrong, the constitution lays out the limited power of the federal government and the scumbags we keep electing, on both parties, are simply ignoring it.

The states do have the taxation power that you've suggested and that is meant to create interstate competition. Sort of a free market tax deal, if you don't like it... Shop somewhere else. This keeps states honest.

Chris said...

Shouldn't laws be equal for all? The tax percentage should be equal for everyone. You can't discriminate in law, unless its against a rich man apparently. Any law has to be equally enforced among the population, regardless of the social class. Liberals on the other hand, CREATE these categories so certain people can be treated as more of a victim than others. That is unlawful and is not fair for the entire populus

flounder said...

It seems that the pendulum of personal freedom has swung back and forth throughout the years. Both sides have used legislation and taxation as a tool to impose their own morals above the natural right of personal liberty. It jusst happens to be that today it is the left that is pushing that button.

It is said in our time that when a conservative wants to be a vegiterian he stops eating meat, however, when a liberal wants to be a vegiterian they outlaw the eating of meat. Not too long ago my favorite president took it upon himself to start a "war on drugs" because he felt that they were unhealthy. This was one of his flaws but a flaw that was consistant with all politicians.

It is time for our federal government to get out of our personal lives and get back to basic governing.

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